sn2003jd %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:54:54 +0900 From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy (QL ?????) To: Elena Pian Cc: Paolo Mazzali , Ken Nomoto , Jinsong Deng , Keichi Maeda , Lifan Wang , jeffery@kestrel.nmt.edu, tmatheson@cfa.harvard.edu Dear Elena and colleagues, We successfully observed some SNe with Subaru on Sep 10 and 11 HST. Here is the spectrum of SN 2003jd. (HST ? Does he mean with HST or Hawaii standard time? Yes there is.) It is highly contaminated by underlying galaxy and its H II region. In the resolution of our image, the point-like H II region is completely superimposed on the SN. The broad [OI]6300,6363 lines seem to have double-peak. The MgI]4572? also seems double-peaked. If it is real, we could suggest the difference of viewing angle for the asymmeric outburst between 1998bw and 2003jd (cf. Maeda et al. 2002). Follow-up spectroscopy is recommended. Now I must leave office and I will report on other SNe later. Koji From: "Jinsong Deng" To: "Koji S. Kawabata" , Subject: Re: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:57:36 +0900 How does this compare with the multi-peak profiles in late 93J spectra? jinsong Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:38:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Paolo Mazzali To: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: Re: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Dear All, This is a really exciting result! As you know, I have been saying for years that if these "weak hypernovae" are off-axis things the best evidence would come from double peaked [OI]. This is now what 03jd is showing. With a simple model (Keichi, you probably have some in your library) we may use just this spectrum for a letter, possibly even to Nature given the current debate. Let us discuss people's opinions here. Cheers Paolo From: "Jinsong Deng" To: "Paolo Mazzali" , Paolo: Is this your picture? O and Mg is concentrated along the equator direction. Our line of sight is close to that direction. And there is not much material in the innermost core of the ejecta, in contrast to 98bw. Do we need to confirm what we see in the spectrum are double peaks, not multiple ones superimposed upon a box? Koji: Is its brightness enough for a HDS observation? We have one HDS night on Sep30. jinsong Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:58:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Paolo Mazzali Subject: Re: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Hi Jinsong, > Paolo: Is this your picture? > > O and Mg is concentrated along the equator direction. > Our line of sight is close to that direction. And there is not much > material in the innermost core of the ejecta, in contrast to 98bw. > exactly. a study of the LC should confirm the absence of low-velocity stuff. > Do we need to confirm what we see in the spectrum are > double peaks, not multiple ones superimposed upon a box? > the figure looks very clear. How could those peaks be a coincidence? Koji, have you any idea? > Koji: Is its brightness enough for a HDS observation? > We have one HDS night on Sep30. > cheers Paolo From: "Keiichi Maeda" To: "'Paolo Mazzali'" , "'Jinsong Deng'" Cc: "'Koji S. Kawabata'" , "'Elena Pian'" , "'Ken Nomoto'" , "'Lifan Wang'" , , Subject: RE: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Dear all, To Kawabata-san; I am wondering if text data of the spectrum could be available soon. The spectrum is really interesting and I would like to play with some simple models. To paolo, Deng-san; >> Paolo: Is this your picture? >> >> O and Mg is concentrated along the equator direction. >> Our line of sight is close to that direction. And there is not much >> material in the innermost core of the ejecta, in contrast to 98bw. >> > exactly. > a study of the LC should confirm the absence of >low-velocity stuff. Should the low-velocity materials be absent? If the double-peak picture is real, the mean velocity (of emitting materials) along the line of sight is about 2000-3000 km/s. It is small in terms of "hypernova" explosions (see Fig, 7 of Nakamura et al. 2001). I mean, oxygen may be concentrated at the equator, but it could still be considered as a part of the inner core. I think what we can do first and immediately are the followings. (1) Simple spectral model: ASSUME the line shape (i.e., the mean velocity toward the obs. and the line width) and see if the whole shapes of Mg I 4570 (it looks Mg rather than Fe?) and OI doublet are consistently reproduced. I can do this homework once the spectrum in the ascii format is available. (2) Brightness estimate: To see intrinsic difference from 98bw (if any), compare the brightness. Then we can get into more detailed modeling business. Cheers, Keiichi From: "Jinsong Deng" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:37:15 +0900 > Should the low-velocity materials be absent? The line profile does not ask for a empty center region, but instead a density there somewhat lower than the near-side and far-side regions. > about 2000-3000 km/s. It is small in terms > of "hypernova" explosions (see Fig, 7 of Nakamura et al. 2001). It is a normal Ic, not a hypernova, as shown in the phoshperic spectra > I mean, oxygen may be concentrated at the equator, but it could > still be considered as a part of the inner core. Is the fallback inevitable? > if the whole shapes of Mg I 4570 (it looks Mg rather than Fe?) and Mg I] more likely since the Fe mass is not expected to be high. Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:40:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Paolo Mazzali To: Keiichi Maeda Subject: RE: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Hi Keiichi, > > To paolo, Deng-san; > > >> Paolo: Is this your picture? > >> > >> O and Mg is concentrated along the equator direction. > >> Our line of sight is close to that direction. And there is not much > >> material in the innermost core of the ejecta, in contrast to 98bw. > >> > > exactly. > > a study of the LC should confirm the absence of > >low-velocity stuff. > > Should the low-velocity materials be absent? > If the double-peak picture is real, the mean velocity > (of emitting materials) along the line of sight is > about 2000-3000 km/s. It is small in terms > of "hypernova" explosions (see Fig, 7 of Nakamura et al. 2001). > I mean, oxygen may be concentrated at the equator, but it could > still be considered as a part of the inner core. > If we view an aspherical HN from very close to the equator, and dominates the composition there, being ejected at low velocities, we would see something like what we see. For a double peak to be there, we cannot have a dense inner component, like in 98bw or 02ap. But that region need not be empty. > I think what we can do first and immediately are the followings. > (1) Simple spectral model: ASSUME the line shape yes > (i.e., the mean velocity toward the obs. and the line width) and see > if the whole shapes of Mg I 4570 (it looks Mg rather than Fe?) and > OI doublet are consistently reproduced. it looks like mg to me. and there is no Fe near 5000A. but the spectrum needs full reduction. (eg background sub.) > I can do this homework once the spectrum in the ascii format is available. > (2) Brightness estimate: To see intrinsic difference from 98bw (if any), > compare the brightness. > possibly. we have photometry time soon. > Then we can get into more detailed modeling business. > yes. cheers Paolo Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:30:30 +0900 To: "Jinsong Deng" , "Paolo Mazzali" From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: Re: QL of Subaru 2003jd spectroscopy Dear Jinsong, Sorry for delay. I returned to my office. >Koji: Is its brightness enough for a HDS observation? >We have one HDS night on Sep30. A simple photometry suggested B=20.3-20.5 and R=20.1-20.4 for 2003jd, but the contribution of the superimposed point-like HII region would be comparable. Anyway it seems impossible to observe with HDS. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%5 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:59:15 +0900 To: pian@bo.iasf.cnr.it, mazzali@ts.astro.it, maeda@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, deng@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, nomoto@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, lifan@panisse.lbl.gov, jeffery@kestrel.nmt.edu, wheel@astro.as.utexas.edu, pah@alla.as.utexas.edu, ohyama@subaru.naoj.org From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: Draft of IAUC Dear all, I would like to submit a report on the SN 2003jd spectrum (attached to this e-mail) to IAU Circulars. Following is the draft. If you have any comment, please let me know before 12:00 (0:00pm) on Sep 18 Sat UT. Thank you. Sincerely yours, Koji Kawabata SUPERNOVA 2003jd K. S. Kawabata, Hiroshima University; K. Maeda, J. Deng and K. Nomoto, University of Tokyo; P. A. Mazzali, E. Pian, Trieste Observatory, L. Wang, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; Y. Ohyama, National Astronomical Observatory of Japan; write on behalf of the Subaru supernova group: "We carried out optical spectroscopy (range 380-720 nm) of the peculiar type-Ic supernova SN 2003jd (IAUC 8232, 8234) on Sep 12.4 UT with the Subaru 8.2-m telescope (+ FOCAS). The spectrum still shows an overall similarity with that of the hypernova SN 1998bw (at 201 day; Patat et al. 2001, Ap.J., 555, 900). However, the broad [OI] 6300,6363 emission feature shows a double-peaked profile with a separation of ~100 nm. The broad emission line at 450-460 nm (possibly MgI] 4571) barely shows a similar profile. Those features suggest an existence of a lower-velocity (<4000 km/s) shell-like component in the ejecta. The observed spectrum is contaminated by strong narrow emission lines and a blue continuum excess, which may be originated in the background HII region. Detailed analysis is in progress." Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lifan Wang Subject: Re: Draft of IAUC > 555, 900). However, the broad [OI] 6300,6363 emission feature 630.0,636.3 nm > shows a double-peaked profile with a separation of ~100 nm. > The broad emission line at 450-460 nm (possibly MgI] 4571) 457.1 nm > barely shows a similar profile. Those features suggest an > existence of a lower-velocity (<4000 km/s) shell-like component ^^^^^^^^^^ Do you mean torus-like structure viewed nearly edge-on ? A shell-like will not make a double peak. > in the ejecta. The observed spectrum is contaminated by > strong narrow emission lines and a blue continuum excess, > which may be originated in the background HII region. ^^^^^^^^^^ Could it just be the star forming galaxy underneath ? http://panisse.lbl.gov/~lifan Lifan Wang (510) 495 2733 (o) (510) 704 0119 (h) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:20:58 +0900 To: lwang@lbl.gov From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: Re: Draft of IAUC Dear Lifan, Thank you for comments. > > 555, 900). However, the broad [OI] 6300,6363 emission feature > 630.0,636.3 nm OK. I correct the expressions. > > existence of a lower-velocity (<4000 km/s) shell-like component > ^^^^^^^^^^ >Do you mean torus-like structure viewed nearly edge-on ? A shell-like will >not make a double peak. As you say, an aspherical geometry like a torus, ring or disk seen from nearly edge-on is right. The 'shell-like' is indeed misleading, and I will remove it from the draft. > > in the ejecta. The observed spectrum is contaminated by > > strong narrow emission lines and a blue continuum excess, > > which may be originated in the background HII region. > ^^^^^^^^^^ >Could it just be the star forming galaxy underneath ? Yes. I will reword it as 'originated in a HII region of the host galaxy or a background star-forming galaxy'. Sincerely yours, Koji Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:33:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Paolo Mazzali Hi Koji, I agree with Lifan, > spectrum still shows an overall similarity with that of > the hypernova SN 1998bw (at 201 day; Patat et al. 2001, Ap.J., > 555, 900). However, the broad [OI] 6300,6363 emission feature > shows a double-peaked profile with a separation of ~100 nm. > The broad emission line at 450-460 nm (possibly MgI] 4571) > barely shows a similar profile. Those features suggest an > existence of a lower-velocity (<4000 km/s) shell-like component > in the ejecta. I would write: This type of profile is typical of a disc-like or torus structure viewed near the equatorial plane. The observed spectrum is contaminated by > strong narrow emission lines and a blue continuum excess, > which may be originated in the background HII region. > Detailed analysis is in progress." > cheers Paolo David J. Jeffery Department of Physics & Astronomy Stoffer Science Hall Washburn University 2004 September 17 Hi Koji: I havn't any comments to make on the circular. But I just like to let you know that I'm paying attention to the emails about SN 2003jd: I just havn't had any moments to think about it. Tchues David Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:19:36 +0900 To: David Jeffery From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Dear David, Thank you for contact. The spectral analyses of 2003jd are being performed mainly by Paolo Mazzali and Keiichi Maeda. I will analyze polarimetric data of other objects: 2004dj, 2004dk, etc when I have a time... Sincerely yours, Koji Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:36:02 +0900 To: pian@bo.iasf.cnr.it, mazzali@ts.astro.it, maeda@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, deng@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, nomoto@astron.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, lifan@panisse.lbl.gov, jeffery@kestrel.nmt.edu, wheel@astro.as.utexas.edu, pah@alla.as.utexas.edu, ohyama@subaru.naoj.org From: "Koji S. Kawabata" Subject: Revised draft of IAUC Dear all, Thank you for kind comments. Here is the revised draft. I will submit around 13:00 on Sep 18 Sat UT. Sincerely yours, Koji Kawabata SUPERNOVA 2003jd K. S. Kawabata, Hiroshima University; K. Maeda, J. Deng and K. Nomoto, University of Tokyo; P. A. Mazzali and E. Pian, Trieste Observatory; L. Wang, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; Y. Ohyama and M. Iye, National Astronomical Observatory of Japan; write on behalf of the Subaru supernova ToO group: "We obtained an optical spectrum (range 380-720 nm) of the peculiar type-Ic supernova SN 2003jd (IAUC 8232, 8234) on Sep 12.4 UT with the Subaru 8.2-m telescope (+ FOCAS). The spectrum still shows an overall similarity with that of the hypernova SN 1998bw (at 201 day; Patat et al. 2001, Ap.J., 555, 900). However, the broad [OI] 630.0,636.3 nm emission feature seems to have a double-peaked profile with a separation of ~10 nm. This type of profile is typical of a disk-like or torus structure viewed near the equatorial plane. The broad emission line at 450-460 nm (possibly MgI] 457.1 nm) barely shows a similar profile. The observed spectrum is contaminated by strong narrow emission lines and a blue continuum excess, which may be ascribed to an HII region in the host galaxy and/or a background star-forming galaxy. Detailed analysis is in progress." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%